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Autore Topic: Here we come, Italy!  (Letto 11065 volte)
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ckurz7000
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« il: 23 Aprile 2013, 16:25:14 »

This is my first post on this forum and I hope there will be many more to follow.

I have been thinking about nothing much else except flying in the past couple of weeks as I am busy preparing our next trip. "We" that is Robert and me, Chris. We are both from Austria and we both are enthusiastic gyrocopter pilots. In 2009 we flew across the US from Boston to San Diego in an open ultralight gyro. You can read about it here. Last year we visited the Provence. A part of the story along with this trip is here.

This year we have two brand new gyrocopter called ArrowCopter, which look and fly like Lamborghinis of the air. Click hereto find out more about the ArrowCopter.

So this year we plan to take our two "Laborghinis" and visit Italy. We plan to enter Italy via Slovenia and land first at the Lido (LIPV). From there we fly south along the Adriatic coast to Torraccia, which is just south of Rimini. Next, we turn inland towards Perugia and follow the Appennin mountains.

Ultimately we want to make it as far south as Corte, south of Brindisi. One goal of ours is to fly once around the Etna vulcano. After that, we plan to turn north and follow the western coast. Spending a night on Elba would be nice, too, although I know that gasoline is very expensive there.

So that's the big picture. I would really like to get some local knowledge and hints where to stop. Between Perugia and Corte I still need good places to stop over. Ideally places that can offer gas (Mogas is fine, Avgas is OK, too) and have something nice to offer (food, hospitality, scenery, wine, friendly people, other pilots, etc...)

The ArrowCopter is equipped with ELT, transponder, radio, GPS, etc. and Robert and I both have PPL licenses as well as ULM licenses. We were hoping to fly as "avanzato" and be able to use some of the bigger airports and airspaces also, if necessary. The ArrowCopter itself doesn't yet have an "avanzato" registration in Italy. Is this going to be a problem? What do you think?

I will be preparing a daily flight log with photos for another forum in English and can post it here as well, if there is interest. Also, I will be carrying a SPOT device, which will give a live GPS track of our trip which you can follow along on a public web site. I'll post the URL when I have it.

Hoping to meet a lot of new friends and looking forward to visiting Italy by gyro,

-- Chris.
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paperavolante
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« Risposta #1 il: 23 Aprile 2013, 16:53:10 »

Hi Chris,
   nice to hear all that. About Slovenia I am pretty sure you kow there is need to get a permission number from SloveniaControl. You can do everything by eMail and usually it takes less then the prescribed two weeks. As you both holds a PPL you can easily have for the whole Slovenian airspace.

About flying in Italy and especially for LIPV, Venice Lido, I just send you in a minute a Private Message....

Looking forward to read here more about your adventures.

Roberto
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philt
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« Risposta #2 il: 23 Aprile 2013, 17:59:32 »

Dear Chris,

I am not sure but I guess you have read my website www.fliegen-in-italien.de and in particular the section about flying ultralights in Italy www.fliegen-in-italien.de/ul.html.

Unfortunately, for foreign microlight flyers, the italian legislation is a real mess. But in a nutshell, the relative DPR133 says that foreign registered microlights are, by default, considered to be non-avanzato. And: it is practically impossible for foreign registered ones to officially obtain the avazanto-status. Therefore, your only chance, if you want to fly to those airports only open to avanzato aircraft (and be certain not to run into any problems) is to contact them all in advance, explain what kind of aircraft, equipment and licenses you have and see if they grant you permission. Unfortunately, that's the situation. It's not enough to "hope" to be considered as an avanzato.

As a side note, the real joys of flying in Italy are really in using the campi di volo and aviosuperfici, anyway. Don't mess with the aeroporti too much. However, I do understand that you would like to land at Lido, which is indeed one of the most beautiful airports in Europe. Same for Elba.

If you have any more questions feel free to contact me.
« Ultima modifica: 23 Aprile 2013, 18:02:15 da philt » Loggato

Philipp Tiemann
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« Risposta #3 il: 23 Aprile 2013, 18:18:06 »

Good luck...you'll need it...Smiley

Venezia Lido will be very very happy to welcome you in italy with ur ultralight...for sure.
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Crono
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« Risposta #4 il: 23 Aprile 2013, 21:30:02 »

i dont fully agree as authorities and flight controllers tend to consider and treat all foreign aircrafts  as GA crafts, therefore navigation in airspaces should not be an issue.


but i would advise against using airports. they are generally expensive, bureaucratic, unfriendly, and often have no fuel.

with a few exceptions.

regards


Dear Chris,

I am not sure but I guess you have read my website www.fliegen-in-italien.de and in particular the section about flying ultralights in Italy www.fliegen-in-italien.de/ul.html.

Unfortunately, for foreign microlight flyers, the italian legislation is a real mess. But in a nutshell, the relative DPR133 says that foreign registered microlights are, by default, considered to be non-avanzato. And: it is practically impossible for foreign registered ones to officially obtain the avazanto-status. Therefore, your only chance, if you want to fly to those airports only open to avanzato aircraft (and be certain not to run into any problems) is to contact them all in advance, explain what kind of aircraft, equipment and licenses you have and see if they grant you permission. Unfortunately, that's the situation. It's not enough to "hope" to be considered as an avanzato.

As a side note, the real joys of flying in Italy are really in using the campi di volo and aviosuperfici, anyway. Don't mess with the aeroporti too much. However, I do understand that you would like to land at Lido, which is indeed one of the most beautiful airports in Europe. Same for Elba.

If you have any more questions feel free to contact me.
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ckurz7000
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« Risposta #5 il: 23 Aprile 2013, 21:45:46 »

Thanks for the replies!

@Roberto: thanks for the warning about Slovenia. Yes, I know about the permit required to fly ULM in Slovenia. I have done it many times and they are usually easy to obtain. Portoroz is one of my favorite spots to fly to Smiley

@philt: your website "www.fliegen-in-italien.de" is very helpful and informative. I have studied it in depth. Thanks for compiling all of this information in one place and making it easily accessible. Regarding "avanzato" there seem to be two camps: one says that I won't have much trouble at all if I fly like a "well behaved" avanzato ULM. The other camp warns me about all the problems I might get into and tells me to better stick to the basico rules. Being from Austria -- which, in many respects, is quite different from Germany -- I understand that rules may read one way on paper but are quite different in real life. I am just going to assume that if I fly according to the rules, use my transponder and radio diligently and don't offend anyone I won't be harrassed too much about not being a true avanzato.

@CAT4R4TTA: What do you mean by "Good luck...you'll need it"? That sounds like a send off to Mission Impossible.  Shocked

I am still working on my route and will post the route when I have it mapped out.

Thanks for all the replies, -- Chris.
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« Risposta #6 il: 24 Aprile 2013, 08:36:54 »


@CAT4R4TTA: What do you mean by "Good luck...you'll need it"? That sounds like a send off to Mission Impossible.  Shocked

I am still working on my route and will post the route when I have it mapped out.

Kind of...
Are you really sure you want to ruin ur flying holidays going to italy?!

Anyway...post ur route and let's see...
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« Risposta #7 il: 24 Aprile 2013, 10:18:40 »

Hi Chris,

a word of caution on Sandro Cat4ratta.  Like myself and Gianmarco Crono, we are all expats living abroad and though in a line of principle we like our country, we think it's so messed up that we migrated to better places. Well, at least for me and Crono as we are in Switzerland, while Cat4ratta is in England, so I am not sure if that qualifies as a "better" place...   Cheesy

Italy can be a great pain when it comes to flying, extremely bureaucratic and with regulations that make no sense at all.

Like Crono says, you're much better off avoiding airports and relying only on "aviosuperfici" or "campi di volo" which are almost always grass or dirt strips, of which there are plenty. Some of these also have hotels and restaurants next to the strip, so they would be ideal as a stopover for an overnight stay.

Once you've crossed the border, there is no need to talk to ATC unless you want to cross a control zone, or CTR.

One thing is for sure; you've come to the right place for good advice on how and where to fly in Italy in VFR!

Ciao, Luca
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flyluis
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« Risposta #8 il: 24 Aprile 2013, 10:20:57 »

Are you really sure you want to ruin ur flying holidays going to italy?!


Not heeding

Over the past three years we have done three times in the tour of Italy in autogyro flying on campi volo
Some documentation

2010
http://www.vfrflight.net/index.php/topic,5271.msg86878.html#msg86878

2011
http://www.vfrflight.net/index.php/topic,10009.msg144328.html#msg144328


2012


http://forumcia.altervista.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=884


Other adventures

http://www.vfrflight.net/index.php/topic,8092.msg115879.html#msg115879

http://www.vfrflight.net/index.php/topic,9392.msg135450.html#msg135450

http://www.vfrflight.net/index.php/topic,11679.msg170217.html#msg170217


http://youtu.be/IcCueEPP00g

http://www.vfrflight.net/index.php/topic,9509.msg137181.html#msg137181


Luigi
« Ultima modifica: 24 Aprile 2013, 10:30:40 da flyluis » Loggato

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ckurz7000
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« Risposta #9 il: 09 Maggio 2013, 19:55:10 »

Thanks for the information and post of those exciting adventures. I have just returned to the forum and found them just now. Will have to take a closer look at the routing.

For now, here is the route I have tentatively planned for my trip:

Coming from Portoroz I follow the coast line to Venezia-Lido (LIPV).

From there along the coast to Chioggia - Lugo di Romagna - Santa Sofia - Torraccia.

Then Cittá die Castro - Del Sagrantino - Leonardi - L'Aquila - Castel del Monte - Macrí.

From Macrí along the coast to Franca - Gioia Tauro - Villafranca Tirrena - Avios. di Ragusa.

That will be my southernmost point. From There I fly to Crotone - Scalea - Salerno - Benevento - Aliocco.

Keeping in a northerly direction from Aliocco - Serristori - Renzo Storai - Il Ranch - Blue Silos - Rivoli di osoppo and the Canal valley to Klagenfurt.

Is there anything I am missing? Some place so noteworthy that I simply have to go out of my way to visit? As already noted I am planning on going "avanzato" if necessary but try to remain in "basico" airspace if that doesn't mean going out of may way too much.

What do guys think?

Thank you for your kind feedback, -- Chris.
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bebix
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« Risposta #10 il: 09 Maggio 2013, 23:06:23 »

For Aviostorai, please take a look here http://www.aviostorai.com/aviostorai/Home.html section "info"
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« Risposta #11 il: 09 Maggio 2013, 23:43:56 »

Hi Chris, if you come to Macrì airfield and need a help with language or anything else, just let me know. However, if you keep me updated about your route, we could at least meet and take a good coffee  Smiley
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« Risposta #12 il: 10 Maggio 2013, 10:43:41 »

regarding the "Avanzato"

my suggestion would be to forget about it. just fly GA style, or turn radio off, go down to treetop level and have fun. as it is more convenient to you. another option is to appear and disappear if you need to cross some airspace. at any rate, there are controlled airspaces where VFR is not allowed at all, or is so mistreated that the treetop level option again becomes attractive.

FICs are all useless and radio coverage dysmal if you are not very high.
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ckurz7000
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« Risposta #13 il: 24 Maggio 2013, 22:10:06 »

Just to let you know, we are still earthbound. We had a few obstacles to overcome, which all turned out reasonably well. We have two ArrowCopters available to us. Our stuff is packed and the route planned. We have redundancy in many things, which is comforting.

The only thing we don't have is good weather. Well, it's good at home but bad all around us. And in about 24-36 hours it will be bad at home, too. There's an ungainly low pressure system hunkering down over the Mediterranean area which spews rain and low clouds all over the wrong places.

On Monday the weather south of Venice is forecast to be good with lingering rain showers, and low level moisture (read very low clouds and areas of fog) north. If we can make it far enough south we should be good.

Here is our route for the first day:

[ATTACH]104173[/ATTACH]

Take off will be at Sankt Georgen (1), LOLG. It would be possible to fly to Rijeka (3), LDRI, on one tank but not in iffy weather where we might have to turn back or deviate. Therefore we stop in Punitz (2), LOGG, just to fill 'er up and press on. Weather permitting, we also just refuel in Rijeka (clear customs) and embark on the third leg of the day to Venice-Lido (4), LIPV, where we have to land and clear customs. Then, the last part takes us to Torraccia (5).

Apart from the weather, which is going to be the biggest challenge, we have to clear customs twice (into and out of Croatia) and deal with the fact that Venice-Lido airport is closed on Mondays.

Total distance is 470 nm, total flight time about 4:30 hours. Figuring about 2 hours for the three refueling stops that's a total of 6:30 hours. A tall order. We might only make it to Rijeka...

I'll keep you updated, just check back here.

-- Chris.
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ckurz7000
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« Risposta #14 il: 28 Maggio 2013, 11:10:02 »

With a heavy heart and after some difficult deliberation I have to announce that we cancelled our trip to Italy due to inlcement weather.

We had originally planned to leave on Friday, May 24, but had to postpone until Monday. Then, sitting at the airport and waiting for the rain to stop, we simply ran out of time. There was bad weather to varying degrees from the Baltic Sea to the Gulf of Triest and even further south. Embedded thunderstorms, low ceilings, patchy fog in the mornings, rain showers etc. And it wasn't forecast to improve any time soon. Apart from leaving late we would also have had to plan for several weather related hold-ups. Overall, the balance between a relaxing trip and a fight against the weather didn't pan out for us.

So sadly, we had to cancel for now but we'll be back later!

Thanks for all the friendly support from this forum, -- Chris.

P.S.: ... looking at Semptember ...
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